10 Differences Between Candidate Obama in 2008 vs 2012
By Carl Wicklander | 10/26/2012 | Budget, Drugs, Economy, Elections 2012, Health Care, Immigration, President, Taxes, War and Foreign Policy | 94 Comments
(Credit: C-SPAN.org)
Author’s note: The reader will notice that some of the differences between Barack Obama in 2008 vs 2012 are actually from 2007. As presidential campaigns begin to last two years, statements made in 2007 are relevant because they are closely related to the 2008 campaign.
1. The president cannot go to war without Congress
In a 2007 questionnaire for the Boston Globe, then-Senator Barack Obama replied:
The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.
In 2007, Obama also supported the War Powers Act, passed in 1973 with the stipulations that Congress must be notified within 48 hours of committing armed forces and that a declaration of war must be made within 60 days:
We thought we had learned this lesson after Vietnam. After Vietnam, Congress swore it would never again be duped into war and even wrote a new law, the War Powers Act, to ensure it would not repeat its mistakes.
By 2011, President Obama committed air power to aid the rebels fighting Moammar Gaddafi. An administration report justified the action without congressional approval on the grounds that it was not a war, but “kinetic military action“:
US operations do not involve sustained fighting or active exchanges of fire with hostile forces, nor do they involve the presence of US ground troops, US casualties or a serious threat thereof, or any significant chance of escalation into a conflict characterized by those factors.
Despite no legal consultation on the administration’s actions and more than 60 days later, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told the media, “I’m not aware of any special seeking of guidance…We believe we are acting consistent with the War Powers Resolution.”
2. Debt Ceiling
Running against the Bush record in 2008, Obama said:
The way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first forty-two presidents. Number Forty-Three added $4 trillion by his lonesome so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $30,000 for every man, woman, and child. That’s irresponsible. That’s unpatriotic.
In the summer of 2011, Carney said of Obama in 2008 vs 2012:
The president…regrets that vote [against raising the debt limit in 2006] and thinks it was a mistake. He realizes now that raising the debt ceiling is so important to the health of this economy and the global economy that it is not a vote that, even when you are protesting an administration’s policies, you can play around with and you need to take very seriously the need to raise the debt limit so that the full faith and credit of the United States government is maintained around the globe.
3. Iraq
As far back as 2002, then Illinois State Senator Barack Obama opposed a potential war in Iraq. In a 2008 New York Times op-ed, Obama prescribed:
We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began.
Combat troops were not officially redeployed and the Iraq war officially over until December 2011, as set up by the Status of Forces Agreement (SFA) negotiated by President Bush shortly before leaving office. As president, Obama attempted to renegotiate the SFA to allow American troops to remain in Iraq, but his proposal was rejected by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
4. Gay Marriage
As early as the 1990s, Obama favored gay marriage – well before gay marriage was on the national radar – but changed his mind by the time he ran for the US Senate in 2004. In his 2008 appearance at Pastor Rick Warren’s Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency, Obama said, “I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman.” In 2012, Vice President Joe Biden endorsed gay marriage on “Meet the Press.” President Obama followed up by saying that he had already made the decision to support gay marriage, but was waiting until the Democratic National Convention to announce it.
5. Guantanamo Bay
Throughout 2007 and 2008, Obama repeatedly endorsed his intention to close the prison facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. After his election, in an interview with Steve Kroft on “60 Minutes,” Obama reiterated his intention, “I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo and I will follow through on that.”
On January 22, 2009, in one of his first acts as president, Obama signed an executive order that stated:
The detention facilities at Guantanamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than one year from the date of this order.
Almost two years after, the deadline has passed, the controversial facility is still open and, in the summer of 2012, the Obama administration issued an executive order prohibiting contact between detainees and their lawyers.
6. Patriot Act
Of one of the more controversial enactments of the Bush administration, Obama said in 2007:
I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom. This means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens, no more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do no more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient.
In addition to extending the Patriot Act in 2011, which included the roving wiretap provision, President Obama’s Departments of Justice and Homeland Security have released reports identifying certain single-issue and, commonly, right-wing groups such as pro-life activists, veterans, and activists for the Second Amendment, as potential terrorists or those who might be recruited by domestic terrorists.
7. War on Drugs
Obama, who has admitted to recreational drug use in his youth, supported marijuana decriminalization in his 2004 US Senate campaign, and seemed reluctant to go after medical marijuana users in a Rolling Stone interview saying, “I would not have the Justice Department prosecute and raid medical marijuana.” To a questioner in New Hampshire in 2007, Obama restated, “I would not have the Justice Department prosecute and raid medical marijuana users.”
However, numerous distributors of medical marijuana have been raided, such as Chaddwick McKeen of Orange County, California, where holders of medical marijuana cards are protected. Explaining himself, Obama in 2008 vs 2012: “What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana.” However, through early 2012, Obama was on pace to exceed President Bush’s total of medical marijuana raids.
8. Signing Statements
As a candidate, Obama criticized President Bush for his use of signing statements. In an installment for the Boston Globe in 2007, Obama said of signing statements:
While it is legitimate for a president to issue a signing statement to clarify his understanding of ambiguous provisions of statutes and to explain his view of how he intends to faithfully execute the law, it is a clear abuse of power to use such statements as a license to evade laws that the president does not like or as an end-around provisions designed to foster accountability. I will not use signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law.
In March 2009, two months into his presidency, Obama issued his first signing statement and has since authored at least twenty others. One such signing statement in April 2011 declared Obama’s intention not to abide by a section of a bill that defunded several agency “czars.”
9. Transparency in the passage of the Affordable Care Act
During the primary and general election, Obama made several promises of transparency in his quest for health care reform. At a January 2008 Democratic candidates’ debate, the candidate declared that the process would not include “negotiating behind closed doors, but [bring] all parties together and [broadcast] those negotiations on C-SPAN.”
Obama admitted this was a broken promise in an interview with ABC’s Diana Sawyer. This broken promise, which C-SPAN was prepared to help the president fulfill, was:
[a] legitimate mistake that I made during the course of the year, and that is that we had to make so many decisions quickly in a very difficult set of circumstances that after awhile, we started worrying more about getting the policy right than getting the process right.
10. Executive Privilege
In 2007, with regard to the Bush administration’s dismissal of several Justice Department attorneys, Senator Obama criticized the administration’s tendency to:
“[h]ide behind executive privilege every time there’s something a little shaky that’s taking place. The administration would be best served by coming clean on this. There doesn’t seem to be any national security issues involved with the US attorney question. There doesn’t seem to be any justification for not offering up some clear plausible rationale for why these US attorneys were targeted when, by all assessments, they were doing an outstanding job. I think the American people deserve to know what was going on there.
On June 20, 2012, President Obama invoked executive privilege for the first time when the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform was preparing to vote Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for his failure to supply subpoenaed documents related to the failed “Fast and Furious” operation that resulted in the death of border agent Brian Terry.




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94 Comments
Michael Higham
10.26.2012
@michaelhigham
Nice investigative piece. It goes to show how much a president can learn from being in office. It’s easy for challengers to tell incumbents “I would do this, I wouldn’t do that” but haven’t experienced the dynamics of being president. There are so much factors that presidential challengers are not aware of, especially when it comes to intelligence, overall responsibility, or being accountable.
Blaz Gutierrez
10.26.2012
@blazgutierrez
Totally agree, Michael. There’s a lot of arm-chair quarterbacking that goes on in politics. Very easy for the pundits to yell at the top of their lungs about how a candidate would act so radically different than the incumbent. The word flip-flop has become part and parcel of our political discourse that we’ve forgotten about the words growth, development, and maturity.
I think that there are many of our senior statesmen who understand this, but still it’s too few.
Robert
10.26.2012
How embarrasing for Americans to defend this unprincipled, lawless, arbitrary form of governemnt hat our system is.
Robert
10.26.2012
*that our system is.
doug
10.28.2012
Thanks Robert for inserting a bit of sanity. While it’s true that a new president has a lot of adapting to do, the amount of “adapting” by Obama was remarkable indeed. Seems he “adapted” almost 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
Adapting to a situation hardly means that one is HELPLESS as some sort of victim of an unforgiving system that absolutely won’t be changed. Keeping the intelligence of Obama in mind, plus his previous experience as a Senator, this would make him even less that sort of a “victim.” No, Obama is responsible for what he did – especially in light of the fact that he had both Houses of Congress in majority situations!
Given the extent to which he and his administration have savaged our constitution, savaged the world with war and now drones, savaged prisoners with torture, assassinated anyone they’ve wanted to against all legal precedent, and increased the financial savaging of the banks and Wall St., his apologists stand as totally complicit in his actions by enabling them to continue. Neither he nor his apologists get a free ride, at least morally. It remains to be seen if he will face consequences for his crimes against humanity and treasonous acts against his country.
W. E. Messamore
10.26.2012
@W__E__Messamore
I’ve got to say, the sheer preponderance of broken campaign promises and 180 degree turns on policies (and there are far more than in just this list), and the shocking brazenness of many of these examples, makes this look to me like something other than a president simply growing and learning while on the job.
It’s not as if Mr. Obama walked into the White House in 2009 and realized some of his promises were unrealistic or difficult to implement, and simply didn’t deliver his reforms. He’s taken it further than that and actually pursued the broad policy strategies of the Bush Administration (which he was elected to change) with more gusto and aggressiveness than the Bush Administration itself!
Take item 3 above. Promising a withdrawal by Summer 2010 and then realizing once in office that this was logistically and militarily unfeasible, and taking until Bush’s withdrawal deadline to get out of Iraq, would be one thing. Maybe it would be an example of learning the hard way that some campaign promises are unrealistic. But getting in office and trying to negotiate a later deadline than even Bush’s after he campaigned like he did against Bush foreign policy and on Iraq– to me that’s just abusive of the voters (including some of our troops themselves) who elected Mr. Obama to get the troops home from Iraq faster.
I just can’t buy into the notion that we are a nation at risk of giving our politicians too little leeway to grow and change because we oppose what we perceive as insincerity and inconsistency with a little too much zeal. On the contrary, it seems to me like we are quick to condemn inconsistency with our mouths, but that we overwhelmingly err on the side of tolerating all kinds of inconsistency and insincerity from our policymakers, and that’s why we’re always calling for reform, but it never comes.
Voters keep rewarding politicians who say what the voters want to hear, but then do something different in office. That’s why approval ratings for Congress are perennially so low while the incumbency rate on election day is perennially so high. While I think there’s room for calibrating, for learning on the job, and for evolving views and approaches to policy issues, I believe we’ve let our politicians use up all that room and much, much more.
At what point are elected policymakers essentially saying voters don’t matter? How many promises they made to voters need to be broken in the name of reality-driven pragmatism before we can agree that voters aren’t really being included in the policy process any more? And when will voters finally tire of this themselves and stand up for their role in our form of government by not voting for incumbents who have been too inconsistent?
John
10.26.2012
You said it much better than I could have, thank you for this, and I agree 100%.
I believe they are already saying voters don’t matter… have been for years now. Most states have been screaming for decades that they do not want a large, centralized, overbearing federal government who thinks they know what is best for everyone. States want to control how things happen, in their own state, and most civilians agree, because each individual state is different, and cultures even within the U.S. vary greatly. The current administration, as well as the past 3 or 4 have taken power from states and mandated their own skewed vision of “progress” on everyone. It seems the plan of the past administrations is to suck power from the states (and they do this through various federal agencies, laws, and by giving “free” money to the states and then threatening to hold it back if the states dont bend where they say), so that in the end, everyone is reliant on the federal government, where there is no local accountability or representation.
Take for instance in #8, one of the incumbent’s choices to ignore the defunding of many unneccessary and ill appointed advisers (these appointees are not elected, observed or monitored by any civilian or voter group to ensure they are operating in a way that benefits us, there is no accountability to the people).
There is also the fact that he will issue signing statements for over 20 different issues that for the most part, should have been passed, but then allow something like indefinite detention be allowed to pass on the NDAA.
Just inexcusable imo.. its almost as if these administrations are trying to mess things up for some bigger picture, and there is something that we are not seeing.
Jane Susskind
10.26.2012
@jsusskind
I’d have to disagree. I don’t think Obama’s shift in policy stances reflect a blatant disregard for voters. Once he got into office, I believe he realized the difficulties of implementing some of the policies he had promised, in part because we have a highly polarized Congress. It’s not as much a matter of inconsistency as it is ineffectiveness of the government. I think whoever becomes president in the 2012 election will face similar challenges. As for the issue of gay marriage, I don’t believe he was ever dishonest, rather the nature of politics precluded him from being straight up.
I do, however, believe that “politics” isn’t an excuse. If a politician feels a certain way about an issue, he or she should be transparant and honest. I don’t think the fear of losing votes, or upsetting your party’s agenda is a valid reason to hold back. The most inspiring politicians are those who go after what they believe, and I don’t think we’ve seen that in a while.
Robert
10.26.2012
interesting Jane, he should be honest, but lying is justified if he wants to keep votes. It’s not inconsistency, it’s ineffectiveness.. which is justified due to partisan politics making it understandable that he can’t tell the truth. wow. yeah. so, do you know what your position is? because in your second paragraph you completely disregarsd all the inconsistencies of the first paragraph with the final flip flp by saying that even though all these inconsistencies have valid excuses, they should not be valid due to politics.
Oh my.. at the risk of sounding mean.. are you trying to get a job in corporate media? because you kind of sound ready for CNN.
pucker
10.27.2012
Having control of the House, Senate, and WH are always so difficult…
Dennis
10.27.2012
” I don’t believe he was ever dishonest, rather the nature of politics precluded him from being straight up. ”
Say that again? What I’m hearing is an excuse for his being dishonest, in a most cynical way…
This is schizophrenic in a “Three Faces of Eve” way that is just astounding!!
doug
10.28.2012
Jane,
I’m curious how you might connect your statement, “It’s not as much a matter of inconsistency as it is ineffectiveness of the government,” might work for such things as continued torture (rendition), terrorizing civilians 24/7 with the use of drones, presidential assassination committee, increasing denial of right to privacy of U.S. citizens and, and intimidation of whistle blowers? Are these all merely “ineffective government?”
To the contrary, I maintain that they have all been extremely effective! Obama is not a rambling boob a la Bush. He KNOWS whereof he does, and he succeeds with his tyrannical actions with arrogance and defiance. All the time with pretty speeches and a smile of course. As Glen Ford aptly describes him, Obama is the More Effective Evil in this election.
fred
12.10.2012
oboma is a ass hole
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
180 degrees apparently doesn’t mean what it used to.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
When one (first post here) makes sweeping generalizations
with zero substantive examples,
it has the effect of silliness or ideology.
William Boardman
10.29.2012
@williamboardman
The last two comments (doug and wes)
feel like they come from an Obama Bubble
where no one ever heard of GW Bush.
Brandt Hardin
10.26.2012
If Obama loses the election, you can blame/thank the Right for bamboozling him. How is it ethical that an entire news network questions the President’s citizenship for four years to create doubt in voters while a fringe element of the far right demonizes and degrades him? Most of this is financed by the rich who want to keep their stranglehold on the flow of wealth in our country. Watch the white hands apply the Blackface to our first African-American President at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2012/10/bamboozling-obama.html
Robert
10.26.2012
Any time you are ready to stop pretending that every single thing in life is about race, and to start looking honestly about politics in this country, and stop bamboozling yourself, the world can’t wait. It does not matter at this point which of these banker’s puppets loses, because either way, politics wins and the American people are swamped with pre-emptive bailouts for the corporatists.
Susan Price-Jang
10.26.2012
@Robert – Sorry but you are being naive if you think race and ethnicity is not a big part of politics in this country
Robert
10.26.2012
@Susan, since you obviously did not read my post accurately, or simply have that trolling desire to respond with non-sequiter, what I will do is repeat my post for you so you can read it more carefully in case you want to make a response that is relavant to my point. I wpould never think that there are Americans who would rather hide behind race rather than actually read the point someone is making, that would just be disrespectful, and in fact, racist.
Quote: “Any time you are ready to stop pretending that every single thing in life is about race, and to start looking honestly about politics in this country, and stop bamboozling yourself, the world can’t wait. It does not matter at this point which of these banker’s puppets loses, because either way, politics wins and the American people are swamped with pre-emptive bailouts for the corporatists.”
doug
10.28.2012
Brandt,
In my case I thank them. Not for their “level of reporting,” since what they do can hardly be called reporting. Not for their blazing revelations, since holding onto slush such as his country of birth can only be attached to the most idiotic sort of clap-trap with which to fill up air time with blatant propaganda.
My reason for thanking them is that as a result of their constant badgering at least he’s in a position where it’s possible to rid our country of his presence in the office of president for REAL reasons: starting his own wars, continuing torture, slashing the Bill of Rights, etc.
Is the MSM ethical? With a few minor exceptions certainly not! Is Obama ethical? I say also, certainly not! The fear of Obama “apologists” is that Romney will win. Romney is likely to be horrible. But not really all that much more than has been Obama. Also, all the apologists will be jumping all over Mitt’s case the day after he’s voted in. Contrast that with Obama’s FREE PASS for four years.
In his case I say, “Let the door hit you on the way out.”
Alex Gauthier
10.26.2012
@alexg
the number one change is in absolutely the right place. for me, its the single greatest hypocrisy of his presidency
Kenny Daniels
10.26.2012
who cares just get rid of him
Rick London
10.26.2012
He’s grown a great deal. I’m enthusiastic over a lot of his actions and disappointed in others. The most proud I am (of his changes) is his loss of naivity. When he first entered office, he had a childlike mind; that all adults would behave as promised, even GOP Congresspersons. He thought wrong. It took him awhile but he learned how to get A LOT done w/o them. In Clintonesque fasion, this infuriated them. So what. He earned my vote this time (though he didn’t get it the first time). He is going to go down as one of the great JFK/Truman like Presidents (like it or not). Facts are facts.
Ariel H Fradin
10.26.2012
He’s been exposed as a right-of-center corporate-fascist shill?
Ariel H Fradin
10.26.2012
Oh, and he’s changed his mind on the Constitution being anything more than toilet paper.
Russell Dale Yoney
10.26.2012
OBAMA-BIDEN.
Edward Zielinski
10.26.2012
For those who plan to vote for Obama in this election consider this.
Should he win the election and I pray he don’t, he will destroy America for us all. He will not care whether you have a job or not. You think he gives a crap about you ?
Example:
In another potential blow for the president’s Ohio reelection campaign, Jeep, the rugged brand President Obama once said symbolized American freedom, is considering giving up on the United States and shifting production to China.
Such a move would crash the economy in towns like Toledo, Ohio, where Jeeps are made and supplied, and rob the community of the economic security they thought Obama’s auto bailout assured them.
And fellow Americans, Here is his position, and he wrote it himself.
Note what B. Hussein Obama says in his own words. They are from his books entitled “Dreams of My Father” and “Audacity of Hope.
In “Audacity of Hope” he writes: “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” The quote comes from page 261 of the paperback edition of “The Audacity of Hope.
THINK !
Susan Price-Jang
10.26.2012
@Edward-Too bad you took only part of the quote. About sending jobs overseas: guess you have not heard about Romney and Sensata Co? A lot of people at Sensata are pretty angry at Romney right now.
Robin Salvadori Allison
10.27.2012
@robin_salvadori_allison
Jeep is building an additional factory in China because of demand over there for Jeeps. They are not closing any US plants and moving them there, but adding to their capacity. Romney got his info from a blog post (apparently), which misrepresented what an article (either Bloomburg or Forbes, I don’t recall now) stated about the move by Jeep.
Either Romney knowingly lied, or he doesn’t bother to do basic research on his claims. Neither is what I want in a President. I fact check articles I repost on facebook, and I’m a nobody, and I call out the liberal posts that are wrong just as quickly as the conservative ones. I expect the same amount of due diligence from a multimillionaire with a staff to do the hard work at a minimum. I also don’t tend to give much weight to opinions of posters who can’t be bothered.
Doretha Reeves
10.26.2012
He’s been consistent since he ran for state senator. The only change is he changed his stance on the rights of the lgbt community to get married. The only difference is that now he’s President of all of us and he’s been trying to do that for four years. Romney changes stances each time he changes his shorts.
Peyton Farquhar
10.26.2012
Obama has backpedaled on everything he said he would do in 2008. He is a lying shill and 100% owned/operated by Wall Street just like Romney. Stop wasting your vote for things you don’t believe it or represent you like the Wall Street bobbleheads. Vote Third Party!
Thomas Christopher Hoag
10.26.2012
Lied more than then. NEXT!
Ben Logan
10.26.2012
Edward, why don’t you provide that entire quote in context for people? http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/coilofrage.asp , scroll to the bottom off the page. Thanks.
Ben Logan
10.26.2012
Considering this brand-new site is trying to be a platform for rational, intelligent discussion of complex issues, can we discuss things without name-calling, or brief quotes taken completely out of context? This is serious stuff that deserves serious/fair discussion. Quotes provided with no context/incorrect context do not add to the quality of discussion, and name-calling is similarly counter-productive.
Pardus X Varius
10.26.2012
I see more consistency in those ten than inconsistency. I feel like it’s a bit of a stretch to actually assign progressive motives to Obama at any time in his career. Most of those seem to be adopted merely to get votes, but in a examination of the nuances of his career as opposed to the (admittedly very shiny and often on-point) BS he says, he’s mostly just a corporate shill.
Vote Jill Stein.
doug
10.28.2012
Pardus,
Well said. But remember – he’s a corporate shill who not only has the capacity to push the country in the direction of his choice, but who also has now demonstrated that he’s perfectly happy doing that “pushing” in ways previously associated with dictatorships. Our Constitutional rights have been slashed and we’ve moved very quickly into an Orwellian Society. He murders at will. He pursues and prosecutes those who would be whistle blowers. In other words, he’s become far more than “just” a corporate shill. He is indeed “The More Effective Evil.”
Paul Grubbs
10.26.2012
When forced to choose between the lesser of two evils; choose the one you’ve never tried before.
Ben Logan
10.26.2012
Paul – what advice do you have for the people that have tried both “evils,” and like neither? Vote third party?
doug
10.28.2012
Ben,
Aha! A call for Third Party! Bravo! I’ll be so bold as to carry that to the next level. Without question the 3rd party candidate to research and then vote for is Jill Stein (jillstein.org). If you don’t know anything or much about her it won’t take long to look through that website, which clearly shows a program that is designed with We The People as the center of its focus.
Please, Please, Please vote for her – I feel that she and the Green Party represent our best hope for the quickest recovery from our multitude of crises situations.
Eddie Ziv
10.26.2012
You only found ten? If you are a diehard fan, there are non. If you hate his guts, there are plenty more…
Gregory Hughes
10.26.2012
I know of at least one thing…I’m still waiting for the “Hope and Change” I was promised…
Nancy
10.27.2012
Aren’t we all…
Kathy Escue
10.27.2012
What about Romney changing his views within weeks, or even during the same debate?
John
10.27.2012
The article is about Obama, not Romney, try to stay on topic please… because you know.. not everyone who dislikes Obama, supports Romney, but I can see how it would be difficult to understand that in your world thats painted black and white.
Johnny Ritchie
10.27.2012
One is a Public Servant for 100% of the people. The other is a wealth creator/CEO for 2% of the country. Where do you fit?
John
10.27.2012
Public servant for 100% of the people? When was the last time he helped me? O that’s right, he hasn’t… ever. I’m still waiting for him to “change it from the inside”, is that coming soon? You must love watching commercials, you’re gullable enough to soak them right up.
Ben Logan
10.27.2012
Folks: this article was about Barack Obama. Any mentions of Mitt Romney in the comment thread are irrelevant.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
Pay no attention to that reality behind the curtain.
Tyler Rasmussen
10.27.2012
*This was spot on with Barack Obama…Turn your brain on, be objective and read…These facts are part of the reason I almost voted for Obama the first go around and why I will absolutely NOT go there a second time…I Know what I am getting and I don’t want any more of it.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
As long as you’re voting third party, no harm done.
Laila Abdullah
10.27.2012
“How has President Obama changed…? Well for starters he took up lying as a hobby….
John
10.27.2012
No, sorry, while I understand your sentiment, I’m fairly certain he was a compulsive liar well before he was even elected.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
“lie” has a reasonably clear definition —
so give an example of an Obama “lie” —
see, he’s much too slippery for that.
John
10.27.2012
Here’s an easy one, and pretty much universally agreed was a good decision. “I’ll close Guantanamo.”
Wasn’t very hard. You can look up old Youtube videos and news articles for other words that have come out of his mouth that aren’t true. Since thats the very clear definition of a “lie.”
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
It’s not a lie when you issue an executive order
and Congress contravenes it.
Actually it’s a lie to call it a lie.
Dennis
10.27.2012
That’s disingenuos, William… HIS troops are guarding GTMO, HE is CIC US Armed Forces, and by executive order (similar to the one he used to end run our immigration laws) he could have GTMO cleaned out in two weeks…. Congress cannot contravene direct orders from a CIC to his troops..
John
10.27.2012
Exactly Dennis.
For those who do not seem to understand, “I’ll close Guantanamo.” was a statement of his intent to do something within his power. The fact that Guantanamo is still open and bustling as of this comment means that statement, by all logical conclusions, was a lie. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
William Boardman
10.28.2012
@williamboardman
A lie doesn’t become true by repetition,
though you’d hardly know it from our culture these days.
William Boardman
10.28.2012
@williamboardman
John recognizes that “I’ll close Guantanamo”
was a STATEMENT OF INTENT.
By definition, a statement of intent cannot be a lie,
and isn’t even dishonest if the speaker tries to fulfill it.
Obama tried to fulfill it.
People need to think more carefully about what is, or isn.t, a lie.
“Iraq has WMDs” was a lie.
John
10.28.2012
So I guess, what you are saying William, is that if at first you don’t succeed, giving up is clearly the best option. Thanks for your comments, all 90 of them on every article, 3 lines long, none of which are worthwhile, most of which are incoherent babbling of a senile person.
At this point, I will just leave you with an example of your absurd logic. You hire me because I promise to fix your window. I start fixing your window and your dog barks at me, temporarily hindering me from fixing your window. At this point I just leave, because even though I am capable of fixing your window, it might be more difficult than I originally planned, therefore I should just stop, and quit my job… Im sure you will claim I have fulfilled my obligation, and not lied to you, right? Yeah, thought so.
Obama made promises, he was hired for a job, and completed none of what was set before him. You can argue til the cows come home about statements of intent unable to be lies, but just know that youre the only one in this conversation willing to pull the wool over their own eyes.
John
10.28.2012
Also, handwaving and pointing to the “other guys that are doing it too” is childish, and a derailing tactic. No one cares about what OTHER people lied about. This is about OBAMA. I didn’t vote for other liars in the past either, so why bring up old politicians and point out there faults when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand? O, I know why, because you know he lied, so youre shifting the focus.
William Boardman
10.28.2012
@williamboardman
Dennis calls me disingenuous, and that may be true,
but I try not to be.
His comment is naive to the point of divorced from reality.
Even if it were correct in its mechanics, which I doubt,
the political firestorm it would create,
not to mention the disposition of the remaining prisoners,
make the status quo (stalemate) not only politically expedient
but in the national interest.
William Boardman
10.28.2012
@williamboardman
What is it about Obama that clouds people’s minds?
Dennis
10.28.2012
It’s only divorced from a reality in which politicians are held accountable for their ‘statements of intent’
All of this ‘statment of intent’ is merely a blah, blah justification for failing to take action that he is fully capable of taking, because he has no pellotas! Verdad!
He truly needs to grow a pair, lest Hillary start wearing more pants….
William Boardman
10.29.2012
@williamboardman
Oh, dear, John seems to have anger issues.
And he seems to think ad hominem attacks
are as goos as arguments.
William Boardman
10.29.2012
@williamboardman
Oh, and, John, about your window example —
you offer a choice between two wrong answers.
This is contractual, not political
John
10.29.2012
Anger issues? Not at all, but please do continue with your handwaving, red herrings and multitude of derailing comments which have nothing to do with the topic. When you are ready to have a conversation without so much confirmation bias packed into your little 3 line comments, let us know please, but be aware, it will likely result in you being wrong on this particular topic (as you can see by plenty of other intelligent well thought out comments above and below by other people as well as myself), though whether you accept it and learn from it is your own choice of course… We can all see that you could talk yourself off a cliff pretty easily.
John
10.29.2012
It was a metaphor William. I’m not sure whether you are unaware of what I was saying, or whether you are being intentionally obtuse. Perhaps I am just being trolled though, and should leave the little flamebait comments with no substance alone, my mistake.
Also, being in a political office does not make one immune to lying, or all words spoken = truth, though perhaps that is where you and I disagree.. and at the end of the day, he still doing a job. Albeit a very poor one.
Vivek Jha
10.27.2012
I think the best you can hope for is to select a person who is smart and shares your values. Once you are sitting in the chair, things get muddled. I despise my liar of a former governor and now that the real estate glut is starting to ease and the economy picking up and OBL deader than disco, I will give my vote to the president, again.
Robin Salvadori Allison
10.27.2012
@robin_salvadori_allison
You’ve got it in one. I find a lot of this article false equivalency, but it may be something I think was far worse in comparison may be a non issue for someone else. Unlike some dreamers, my expectations of what a politician promises coming to pass are about 50%. If someone I agree with 90% gets 50% done, my “gain” is 40% of what I wanted as change. Obama IMO has delivered on closer to 70% on actual promises, which I was about 60% in agreement with, so my gain is 40%. About normal. Ask about specifics, and I can usually find a reason why I didn’t get 100% because 1) I’m a realist, and 2) I understand politics.
This said, I don’t understand anything about Mittens’ campaign or pattern of positions, but I can 90% figure out why Obama does something, whether I agree or not.
A good CEO/General/Leader sets the tone and the direction, and details are flexible as they run into reality, with the leader’s constant monitoring to see things stay on course. A bad CEO/Leader sets a tone which isn’t conducive to the organization, and the direction might be clear but there are no details or oversight. He gives orders or states positions and refuses to either take responsibility when they screw up, or simply insists reality isn’t real. A bad boss takes vacation when there is work to be done, lies to underlings and outsiders, and dismisses any question that seems to paint him as less than perfect. A good leader might selectively use facts, but tries not to lie, apologizes/changes course when something doesn’t work, and keeps a consistant course.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
Shades of difference here (mostly)
compared to Romney’s flat contradictions.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#1 is shoddy analysis.
The headline would be nice if it were true.
The post 9/11 authorization of force covers whatever a President feels like doing.
Obama didn’t lie us into Libya the war Bush lied us into Iraq.
If Congress cared, Congress could have said something.
This is not a good situation, but it is mostly not of Obama’s making.
Dennis
10.28.2012
Blah blah, bush, romney, blah blah blah…. II can’t read that this is about Obama…
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#2 no analysis at all here,
just two comments that are not mutually exclusive.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#3 really doesn’t say anything —
Obama said he’d end the war, he ended the war.
OK, it took longer. So?
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#4 — omygod, he made a 360 degree turn —
no, it wasn’t pretty, but his constituency
hes administration to account.
Isn’t that called politics?
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#5 — Guantanamo is bad —
and the anti-Guantanamo constituency gave up —
and Congress intervened (unlike Libya),
and what would Romney do, ya think?
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#6 — Patriot Act is primarily a Congressional cave-in to Bush post 9/11 — n
the anti-police state constituency has pretty much failed to materialize,
never mind mount serious opposition.
And the “pro-life” community HAS produced terrorists.
So has the hyper-gun community.
And Romney doesn’t care about the Patriot Act.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#7 — war on drugs is definitely bad karma —
has been for what, 30-40 years?
What goes on under the Obama Justice Dept. is shameful,
also strong policy continuity —
the question is whether a president can control an entrenched
bureaucracy, especially when its still full or partisans
from the previous administration.
And Romney will surely be so much more sane about drugs?
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#8 — to raise the question of signing statement
without offering statistics is journalistic malpractice.
But I’m sure Romney would never use them… ;-)))
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#9 — transparency — yes, be broke a promise —
he must have realized what a colossally stupid promise it was.
Doesn’t anyone remember Wilson’s fiasco
seeking “open covenants, open arrived at”?
And as far as health care goes, again the constituency
for a rational single-payer system gave the Pres a pass.
William Boardman
10.27.2012
@williamboardman
#10 should be deleted —
executive privilege is not a serious issue with this Pres —
the executive privilege exercised in “Fast And Furious” was both
limited and defensible, regardless of the conclusion, but
there’s no hint of analysis here.
And even to allow the inference that after-the-fact executive privilege
had anything to do with a border agent’s death is just despicable.
Romney would approve.
Donna Ryan
10.27.2012
Edward Z no offense but your comment is a perfect example of the hysteria adding to the climate of divisiveness in our country. Not to mention eager, willful disregard for fact and truth. Firstly, Jeep is majority-owned by Italian automaker Fiat. Secondly, the company has no intention to close its Ohio operation and move to China. http://www.freep.com/article/20121027/NEWS15/310270053/Romney-camp-silent-on-his-Jeep-to-China-gaffe
William Boardman
10.28.2012
@williamboardman
And thirdly, the company issued a press release
sharply critical of Romney’s lie —
although they only called it “unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments”
(by definition a fantasy is not true)
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/26/jeep-china-romney-offshoring-wrong-false-gm/
Susan Williams Voyles
10.28.2012
He bows to saudi kings and apologizes when our Ambassador is killed at Benghazi.
Susan Williams Voyles
10.28.2012
freep. com……liberal press
doug
10.28.2012
IMO this thread is deteriorating badly. As the dolphins say, “So long and thanks for all the fish.”
Naomi Took
10.29.2012
Way back in 2008 we were told Obama would learn on the job. Boy did he learn the D.C. back paddle fast.
John
10.29.2012
Indeed Naomi, he did! Though it honestly shouldn’t surprise us, I mean look where he came from.. Chicago politics… a beacon of honesty, democracy and independence, right? Yeah… just like Detroit… hah.
Dee Mann
10.30.2012
”A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.” – Cicero, 42 B.C.
Dee Mann
10.30.2012
A “Constitutional Committee” needs 38 Governors ? WE THE PEOPLE can and WILL clean the HOUSES ! We NEED to make these “Civil Servants work for US, like they are supposed to !!! Governors can END this OLIGARCHY. They MUST FEAR us AGAIN or Revolution and Bloodshed WILL occur ! Governors CAN STOP this self serving , corrupt Administration …. QUICKLY ! Someone start a “38 GOVERNORS NEEDED” Facebook Page or ANY other way , P L E A S E !!!! We WILL take America BACK !!!
Dee Mann
10.30.2012
Let me be CLEAR ! The only reason I’m voting for Obama is because I now get an EBT card and free cash benefits every month.
I could care less who’s President. I just don’t want to work because I don’t believe in paying taxes on slave-wages.
It’s my right to refuse to work, it’s also my right to demand Government pay my way.
All the blacks in my area buy everything using EBT cards, so why should have to work like a slave so I can earn less money than they get off Obama’s EBT?
Voting Obama ensures I get my EBT too!
William Boardman
12.10.2012
@williamboardman
What fred 12.10.12 lacks in analysis,
he balances with poor grammar —
that should be “an” followed by a single word.