Arizona legislators push bill to allow guns on college campuses

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INTERACTIONS

In a move sure to be controversial and which has already received national attention, Arizona legislators have redrafted legislation to allow guns to be carried at public colleges and universities. Governor Jan Brewer vetoed a previous attempt, not because she was particularly opposed to the idea, but because it was unclear and murky. She hasn’t voiced an opinion on the new bill but is known to be pro-gun.

gunandgame.com

Existing Arizona gun law says colleges and universities can allow guns but, so far, none have done so. The new bill, which will be introduced when the legislature opens on Jan. 9, prohibits public universities and community colleges from banning concealed-carry (with a permit) and open carry on campus. Schools would be able to ban guns inside buildings but would need to provide gun lockers with keys if they do.  The storage units cost between $100-$300 and schools would have to pay for them. Obviously, this could become expensive for large universities. However, they would only have to offer the units at one entrance, not all of them. Arizona’s three state universities have about 1,800 buildings.

As is almost always true with our welter of confusing gun laws, just determining how many other states allow gun carry on campus is confusing and contradictory. Armed Campuses, which opposes guns on campus says four states currently allow it. They are Utah, Colorado, Michigan, and Virginia. All four states are ‘shall-issue’ states for concealed carry. Barring a criminal record or mental instability, the permit must be issued, usually after a brief training period.  Utah has the most permissive policy. Gun carry is legal on higher education campuses because it is specifically protected by the state constitution. A school cannot ban it. In Colorado, you can open carry on a college campus but need a concealed handgun permit. Michigan and Virginia permit it, but it must be specifically permitted by the institution. Currently, only one school in each of those states does.

However, Wisconsin, Mississippi, and Oregon also allow some type of concealed carry on campus in addition to Utah, Colorado, Virginia, and Michigan. Other states are proposing campus carry legislation, among them Tennessee, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Florida, Texas, and Nebraska.

The push for guns on campus accelerated after the horrendous shooting at Virginia Tech in 2007 in which 33 students were killed. Some say that allowing weapons on campus could have stopped the shootings, and that it is better to be able to defend oneself and others rather than playing dead and hoping you don’t get shot. This of course could lead to unintended consequences like several armed people around a shooter opening fire at once, potentially hurting others. Interestingly, the Virginia Tech Review Panel recommended that guns be banned from the campus after studying the shooting.

Others feel that guns on campus could be intimidating and kill academic debate.  Also, the storage issue could be problematic, especially if guns were stolen. Plus, insurance rates could rise for universities. But, the pro-forces say that carrying guns is protected by the Constitution and thus should be permitted by responsible citizens with no criminal records or mental problems.

The bill is expected to pass in the Arizona legislature. It will then be Gov. Brewer’s decision whether or not to sign it into law.

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  1. Gvaldeg1 Gun free zones are ripe picking for criminals and nut cases.  Statistics show that concealed carry saves lives.  But people with defective thinking processes gainsay the facts in favor ofpolitical correctness!
  2. Do We Really Want to See Boxer Carry on Campus? | The Truth About Guns [...] Want to See Boxer Carry on Campus? Posted on January 4, 2012 by Dan ZimmermanArizona’s making another push for campus carry. And I’m all for giving students the right to avoid being a Virgina [...]
  3. Paul Grajciar Obviously none of this bill's proponents, whether in the capitol or on this page have been to a party on a college campus. Which somehow does'nt surprise me.
  4. Angelo Giuliano Yes a well regulated militia, made up of the people well duh.. but when was the last time we used a militia? since the sentence is dependent, i support gun ownership dont get me wrong, i dont think you have a right to ak 47 or sniper rifles etc. but hand guns yes all day every day. However read both parts top and bottom, and realize without the use of a militia.....
  5. Gable Bates Two things. 1)For clarity on the meaning of the second amendment, look at the numerous comments made at the time about it and personal weapon use in general (and compare to its predecessor, the English Bill of Rights a century earlier). It's abundantly clear that it's about a right of the people, for potential use against people. Even the words themselves--people, militia (composed of regular people assembling in periodic musters), well-regulated (at the time, meaning in good working order, meaning mandatory practice, check the OED)--all refer to ordinary people having weapons and practicing with them to maintain a basic level of proficiency. Whether someone today thinks that's a good idea or not is another matter. 2)Concealed Carry permit holders have a superior record of gun use and safety compared to police officers; they are keenly aware of the many safety and liability issues that they face when they carry, and tend to have significantly more practice than police usually do (police have surprisingly limited practice). This includes incidents at schools when someone was armed and close enough to stop it. So yes, having some CCW holders around VA Tech would have saved a significant number of lives, even if it may not have prevented the rampage from starting.
  6. Nima Faanunu If they know how to use it and aren't criminals.... why not?
  7. Bristol Bailey the well regulated part is covered by all the checks and legality that LEGAL gun owners must go through...also anyone with a carry permit has been trained on how to use their weapon..I am saddened that ppl have so little confidence in their fellow LEGAL gun owning citizens..
  8. Michael PW Lewis I'm all for people owning and carrying guns but there is a big difference with people who own guns and people who know how to use guns. When the 2nd amendment was written knowing how to use a gun was apart of life. Today there are people that have never held or shot a firearm. Jill is right about shooting. You can point and pull the trigger but if you don't know what your doing you can hurt yourself or someone else. I was taught about gun safety as a child (I was raised on a farm) and I can do the same for my children but will everyone else? I don't think so. Good question, tough to get the right answer.
  9. Kimberly Floren Abramski Simply.... No
  10. Jill Greene And I also love how some people are like "oh, if i had a gun on campus and some guy opened fire, i'd take him out..." Good luck with that. Nothing like being completely over confident in your skills. Even police officers have difficulty accurately firing a weapon under duress, but I'm sure some guy who spent 2 hours last Saturday at the range will do much better. You know what, folks? They've done studies. Even well-trained gun carriers stand little chance of successfully defending themselves in a closed setting when a gunman opens fire. It's highly, highly unlikely that someone carrying a weapon in a classroom will be able to do anything other than accidently shoot themselves or an innocent bystander.
30 comments
Gvaldeg1
Gvaldeg1

Gun free zones are ripe picking for criminals and nut cases.  Statistics show that concealed carry saves lives.  But people with defective thinking processes gainsay the facts in favor ofpolitical correctness!

Paul Grajciar
Paul Grajciar

Obviously none of this bill's proponents, whether in the capitol or on this page have been to a party on a college campus.

Which somehow does'nt surprise me.

Angelo Giuliano
Angelo Giuliano

Yes a well regulated militia, made up of the people well duh.. but when was the last time we used a militia? since the sentence is dependent, i support gun ownership dont get me wrong, i dont think you have a right to ak 47 or sniper rifles etc. but hand guns yes all day every day. However read both parts top and bottom, and realize without the use of a militia.....

Gable Bates
Gable Bates

Two things.

1)For clarity on the meaning of the second amendment, look at the numerous comments made at the time about it and personal weapon use in general (and compare to its predecessor, the English Bill of Rights a century earlier). It's abundantly clear that it's about a right of the people, for potential use against people. Even the words themselves--people, militia (composed of regular people assembling in periodic musters), well-regulated (at the time, meaning in good working order, meaning mandatory practice, check the OED)--all refer to ordinary people having weapons and practicing with them to maintain a basic level of proficiency. Whether someone today thinks that's a good idea or not is another matter.

2)Concealed Carry permit holders have a superior record of gun use and safety compared to police officers; they are keenly aware of the many safety and liability issues that they face when they carry, and tend to have significantly more practice than police usually do (police have surprisingly limited practice). This includes incidents at schools when someone was armed and close enough to stop it. So yes, having some CCW holders around VA Tech would have saved a significant number of lives, even if it may not have prevented the rampage from starting.

Nima Faanunu
Nima Faanunu

If they know how to use it and aren't criminals.... why not?

Bristol Bailey
Bristol Bailey

the well regulated part is covered by all the checks and legality that LEGAL gun owners must go through...also anyone with a carry permit has been trained on how to use their weapon..I am saddened that ppl have so little confidence in their fellow LEGAL gun owning citizens..

Michael PW Lewis
Michael PW Lewis

I'm all for people owning and carrying guns but there is a big difference with people who own guns and people who know how to use guns. When the 2nd amendment was written knowing how to use a gun was apart of life. Today there are people that have never held or shot a firearm. Jill is right about shooting. You can point and pull the trigger but if you don't know what your doing you can hurt yourself or someone else. I was taught about gun safety as a child (I was raised on a farm) and I can do the same for my children but will everyone else? I don't think so. Good question, tough to get the right answer.

Jill Greene
Jill Greene

And I also love how some people are like "oh, if i had a gun on campus and some guy opened fire, i'd take him out..." Good luck with that. Nothing like being completely over confident in your skills. Even police officers have difficulty accurately firing a weapon under duress, but I'm sure some guy who spent 2 hours last Saturday at the range will do much better. You know what, folks? They've done studies. Even well-trained gun carriers stand little chance of successfully defending themselves in a closed setting when a gunman opens fire. It's highly, highly unlikely that someone carrying a weapon in a classroom will be able to do anything other than accidently shoot themselves or an innocent bystander.

Jill Greene
Jill Greene

I love how everyone skips over the "well-regulated" part

Bart Ping
Bart Ping

As to the question at hand: Yes, they should be. I would much prefer if they didn't, as I personally don't care for firearms. But this is America. We have individual rights and responsibilities. They have the right to carry a weapon, but also the responsibility and consequences that come with doing so.

Bill Rogers
Bill Rogers

I guarentee that if I was in school and carried, I would shoot a lot and know what I was doing, and when some idiot opened fire, this kid would return fire

Bart Ping
Bart Ping

Wrong, Angelo. Read the 2nd Amendment again: 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.' There are many ways to interpret it. My interpretation is that, because the government must maintain a militia, the people must also be allowed arms in order to maintain the true freedom of the state.

This gives us the ability to rise up against our government should the need ever exist. That is the true purpose of the Second Amendment.

Bristol Bailey
Bristol Bailey

and Angelo, a militia is made up of the ppl...it is in place to make sure that the government and others do not take away the rights of free ppl within a free state...I am a proud gunowner...Without us legal gunowners the only ones with guns will be the cops, military, and the criminals..If you want to depend on the cops to show up in time..good luck..some of us will be able to defend our selves...Have a good day...

Bristol Bailey
Bristol Bailey

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed....maybe some should read this...yes, legal gunowners should be able to carry their weapons anywhere...

Angelo Giuliano
Angelo Giuliano

Well if you actually read the second amendment and stop skipping to the end.. unless your part of a well regulated militia you dont have a actual right to a gun.. No i do not support guns on campus, i do support armed security though.

Jill Greene
Jill Greene

You know what? My students can't even manage to clean up their trash when they leave a classroom, so I'm not all that thrilled about the idea of them carrying weapons.

Bill Rogers
Bill Rogers

Yes I would, then some nut job might be a little bit more hesitant to start shooting innocent people.

Jane Susskind
Jane Susskind

If I knew my classmates were walking around with concealed weapons, permit or not, it would definitely change my attitude towards education. While allowing guns on campus may have halted the Virginia Tech shootings, allowing everyone with a permit to carry a gun may have a reverse effect and lead to more shootings. While I am a strong believer in the Constitution, carrying guns on campus just seems unnecessary and costly.

Trevor Polischuk
Trevor Polischuk

To be honest, i'm not sure where I'm at on the carry issue, but making colleges foot the bill for gun lockers while education has suffered from year after year of budget cuts is pretty silly. I'm interested to see what will ultimately happen with this bill, though.

chad
chad

Half the country trying to get rid of guns completely, half the country trying to give guns to everyone...America!

Alan Markow
Alan Markow

Auto insurance companies put most college-age kids in the high-risk category. Do we think there's a lower risk to kids walking around with guns? Judgment is the big issue here, not some political statement about a highly debatable section of the Constitution.

Bob Morris
Bob Morris

I'm not sure that people having guns would would have saved Gabby Giffords from being shot. (And maybe some there did have guns?) It happened too fast. You might be able to shoot the shooter after he fired, but by then it was too late to save Gabby.

Jeremy Beasley
Jeremy Beasley

"Kids" can't walk around with guns. Federal law requires you to be 21 years old to buy or carry a pistol. That would mean that the students carrying a concealed firearm would be adults.

Jeremy Beasley
Jeremy Beasley

But it may have been in time to save the nine year old girl's life...

Trackbacks

  1. [...] Want to See Boxer Carry on Campus? Posted on January 4, 2012 by Dan ZimmermanArizona’s making another push for campus carry. And I’m all for giving students the right to avoid being a Virgina [...]